View source for Intimacy: He Wants More, I Want Less

What is considered the normal range of imbalance between husband and wife in the area of intimacy?

'''To the author of the kuntreisim on shalom bayis,'''

I read your kuntress for women (for more info, write to [[Mailto:kuntreisim@gmail.com|kuntreisim@gmail.com]]) and found it to be eye opening. I was wondering if you could perhaps advise me about something.

I’ve been married for about 11 years and I have never experienced an orgasm. The truth is that I really don’t care, but my husband does. I feel happy and satisfied with our intimacy as is, and don’t feel that there is really any need to chase after me getting to that point. I feel very sensitive, and maybe even a bit protective of the sensitive areas of my body. I really don’t like it when my husband tries to digitally or orally stimulate my upper or lower sensitive areas, but since he always seems to feel like it is something that he needs, I allow it for a quick second every now and then. But the type of stimulation that would be necessary for orgasm, that is just too much for me. But is this wrong? Are these types of things normal? Should I be letting my husband do what he wants even if it seems not normal or feels uncomfortable for me?

Another thing that I was wondering about is that my husband seems to have a need for intimacy far more frequently than I. It seems as though if it were technically feasible, he would want to engage in intimacy every night. Also, I don’t feel like I get any particular benefit from the actual penetration. I love the closeness and being together, but the actual act itself, it doesn’t seem like I really connect to it. On the other hand, I don’t suffer from lack of natural lubrication as my body does produce sufficient lubrication for the penetration and I do not have a need to use artificial lubrication.

Some of the other things that make me feel like my husband is overly sexual is that he wants me to wear provocative lingerie, he wants me to do hair removal for my oso makom, he wants to orally stimulate my oso makom, and he wants to digitally stimulate my rear, including digital penetration of the anus. Practically speaking, my husband never does things that I don’t want him to do, and he is gentle and patient with me and really acts like a mentsch. He just gently asks me about these things from time to time, and over the years I have given in on some of them, but, as I mentioned, only a very little bit.

I also don’t let the intimacy go on for as long as my husband would like. Usually it lasts about half an hour, maybe less, because I bring it to an end.

Lastly, for what seems like forever, my husband has been telling me that it’s not fair that I think he is some crazy sex maniac, that he is just a normal man with normal desires, and also that we should go for couple’s therapy. But I cannot even imagine doing that! Even writing this letter anonymously was incredibly, incredibly hard for me!

I love my husband very much and would really appreciate any advice you could give me that could help me improve my marriage,

Jewish Wife Seeking Help

p.s. if the things my husband desires are normal, do you think that it might be that because he wasn’t getting them that is why he wound up needing GYE?
----'''To a Jewish Wife Seeking Help,'''

First of all, it is completely understandable that you felt super uncomfortable to reach out for help by writing that letter. Even though you wrote it anonymously, you still poured out one of your innermost, sensitive struggles, and that is not easy. In fact, it’s really, really hard. So kol ha’kavod to you! You are to be super, super commended!

In terms of the specific issues that you mentioned, most of the things that you described are, in my opinion, within the normal range of men’s desires. That is certainly true insofar as is concerned things such as digital/oral stimulation of the chest, the wife wearing lingerie, and digital stimulation of the oso makom. Also, for intimacy to take up to an hour is certainly normal. In my opinion, hair removal of the oso makom and even oral stimulation of the clitoral area are both also within the normal range.

That being said, a man must not do things to his wife that she does not want him to do. At the same time, things that are an expected part of intimate activity, it would not be right for a wife to bar her husband from doing them, so it is something that she would need to actively work on so that she can get to a place where she feels comfortable with them.

Insofar as hair removal of the oso makom is concerned, though, even though the Gemara discusses it in clearly positive terms, it would seem that nowadays it is not an expectation that is taken for granted in most kehillos and therefore a woman would be within her rights to refuse that request. It would be a fulfillment of “isha kesheirah osah retzon baalah” to accede to the request, but it is not something that she should feel obligated to do.

In any event, it is not healthy for a woman to do things that she is uncomfortable with, so even if a woman were to decide that she wants to fulfill “osah retzon baalah”, she should be careful to make sure that she first gets to a place where she truly feels comfortable with it.

On the other hand, for a man who is well past shana rishona to desire intimacy almost every night does not sound within the normal range, nor does digital penetration of the anus sound within the normal range. Putting that together with the fact that your husband has struggled with at least some degree of pornography usage could very well indicate that there is something lacking balance in your husband’s sexuality. It might be that he has a preponderance for addictive-like behavior. It is also possible that he may be suffering from an actual sex-addiction, depending on the degree of his struggle with pornography. As far as I am aware, an addiction is only clinically diagnosed as such when the degree of involvement with the activity is so much that it interferes with normal, daily functioning and/or the activity takes on a starkly compulsive nature wherein it is controlling the person instead of the person controlling it and he has no ability to stop himself from engaging in the activity.

As far as your side of the equation is concerned, although it sounds perfectly understandable that you do not want intimacy to be an activity that is undertaken with exaggerated frequency and you don’t care for things such as digital penetration of the anus, it does not seem to be within the range of a healthy balance for a woman to feel as though things such as the standard penetration of intimacy and stimulation of the chest and oso-makom either do not really give her any pleasure or even bother her. It also does not seem healthy that a woman would feel as though she needs to strictly limit the amount of time of the intimate activity, and it also does not at all sound healthy that a woman should feel as though she needs to protect the sensitive parts of her body from her husband. These are things that are supposed to entail great mutual pleasure for both husband and wife. Furthermore, although there is no “gezeiras ha’kasuv” that a woman has to experience orgasm, it would seem out of the ordinary for a woman to not have any interest at all in experiencing it.

Taken altogether, it would seem as though you are kind of disengaged from the sexual component of intimacy and that there is a significant imbalance and lack of mutuality and harmony between you and your husband in this area.

What may be going on with your side of the equation is a confluence of factors such as: a) inadequate preparation for marriage in terms of what to expect and what is normal and acceptable, and b) feeling turned off and/or defensive as a result of your husband’s exaggerated desires. It is also important to mention that if you ever experienced sexual abuse, or any other form of abuse or trauma, it is very possible that that can have a dramatic impact on how you feel and relate to intimacy. Another consideration to take into account is the possibility of sensory issues that you may have that could possibly be causing and/or exacerbating the situation.

Although you may be able to address part of this challenge through exercises that could help you to feel more comfortable with various activities (e.g. gradual desensitization of the area through a weeks or even months long process of beginning with very mild and brief stimulation of the areas right next to the sensitive areas with only the palm of the hand applying pressure and not the fingers and gradually increasing the range and duration of the stimulation; and/or employing mental exercises to imagine the various forms of stimulation in your mind and imagining yourself enjoying it; etc.), given everything you’ve described, it is probably not the best idea to try to deal with this situation without professional help. As I mentioned, from the way you describe the situation, it sounds as though both you and your husband are struggling with an imbalance, and professional help is definitely called for.

Trying to implement significant changes in such a situation without professional guidance can carry a certain degree of risk of exacerbating the situation. For example, if you were to decide that, since you have now discovered that such-and-such is actually normal, you are just going to do it for your husband, and you do it without truly feeling comfortable with it, it can have a boomerang effect that may eventually push the two of you farther apart instead of bringing you closer together. I am not saying that it is by definition impossible to work on these things without professional intervention, but I would strongly say that it is not advisable. As in any serious matter, it is very important to do whatever you can to get professional help so that you will have the best chances for success.

It may be that the two of you will be able to address all the issues in couple’s therapy, but it may be that each of you may also need a certain amount of individual therapy.

I understand that reaching out to get help in person can be a very, very hard thing to do, but it is definitely worthwhile. A good therapist will help you to feel validated and empowered and will only look up to you for having the courage to seek out help for this most sensitive of issues.

It should also be noted that the fact that you have been married for more than a decade means that you have the benefit of a very deep knowledge of one another, wisdom born of a wealth of experience, and the heightened maturity that comes with years. All these are great assets that can serve you very well in the therapeutic process.

Finally, it is very important to emphasize that it seems that both you and your husband are very good people who truly want to do the right thing. Based on what you wrote, it seems to me that neither of you are to blame for the situation. Everyone has struggles in life, and every couple has struggles that they need to deal with. Many, many couples struggle in the area of intimacy. It is very normal. Even insofar as the fact that your husband wound up needing GYE is concerned, I do not believe that you are to blame for that at all. It is certainly possible that a man who is getting complete fulfillment within the context of his marriage has less of a risk of falling into pornography. However, it is also true that even a man who is completely fulfilled from his marriage can still fall into pornography. Furthermore, it is not your fault that you were not given comprehensive information as a kallah. And it is also not your fault that, to date, Klal Yisrael does not have much of a system in place that would facilitate people reaching out for and getting guidance in the realm of concerns vis a vis intimacy.

So, although it is understandable that you may be struggling with feelings of guilt over your husband’s feelings of frustration or lack of fulfillment and/or his struggle with pornography, the fact of the matter is that it is really the yeitzer hara trying to get the better of you. He loves inducing guilt because he knows that it paralyzes a person. Try to keep your focus forward and look towards the future with a positive attitude. B’ezras Hashem you and your husband will achieve the balance and harmony that you both are striving for!

Mechaber Kuntreisim

kuntreisim@gmail.com
[[Category:Intimacy]]