Difference between revisions of "Dealing with Thoughts"
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* See [[Hesech Hadaas]] | * See [[Hesech Hadaas]] | ||
| − | * See [[Attitude Principles for Lust Struggles]] > Dealing with thoughts and fantasies | + | * See [[Attitude Principles for Lust Struggles]] > Dealing with thoughts and fantasies. |
| + | * [[Tanya]] | ||
Dealing with thoughts about doing something: | Dealing with thoughts about doing something: | ||
* [[Rational and Irrational Beliefs]] | * [[Rational and Irrational Beliefs]] | ||
| − | == | + | = Dealing with improper thoughts = |
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| − | + | == Torah Sources == | |
| − | + | * אגרות ומכתבים מר’ ישראל סלנטר זצ”ל, אגרת כה, שכ’ וז”ל-- דבר הקרי מקרה לילה הוא המסובב ויסוד העבירה הוא ההרהור ביום, ואם ההרהור בא מאונס, יש להקל לבלי חושבה לעון ואין להעמיק, '''ולא בהשתדלות מרובה לדחות ההרהורים''' כי זאת טיבעת נפש האדם, כל שמעמיק לדחות איזה רעיון, איזה צער וכיוצא, עוד תתגבר ההתנגדות בנפש האדם להלהיב המוזר לאדם, לזאת '''מריבוי ההשתדלות לדחות ההרהורים יכול להיות שתולד לפעמים סיבה גדולה לחזק ההרהורים'''. כן זה גם בתפילה, העמל הרב לדחות מחשבות זרות מולידים לפעמים סיבה למחשבות זרות, מסיבת טיבעת נפש האדם להתנגדות, והנסיון ברעיון גופני יוכיח הדבר למדי. | |
| + | ** וחידושי הלב ח"ג במדבר הביא דבריו וסייים: הרי מבואר שהדרך להנצל מהרהורים אסורים '''היא לא ע"י הדגשת חומר האיסור ודחיית ההרהורים מהלב, אלא ע"י הסחת הדעת לדברים אחרים'''. | ||
| + | * Reference: ישראל קדושים הרפענעס p. 50 (nothing wrong with first thought) | ||
| + | * Reference: יסודות הבית וקדושתו בעילום שם p. 38 (nothing wrong with first thought - in name of Rabbi Chaim of Volozhin) | ||
| − | + | == Further reading == | |
| − | + | * Positive Vision Day 35 - Worse Than Titus (quotes the Nefesh Hachaim about הרי הוא מכניס זונה כו') | |
| + | * Battle of the Generation Ch. 43 | ||
| − | + | == From GYE Members == | |
| − | + | By [https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/376777-What-time-is-the-Zman-to-fast-out#376780 @5Uu80*cdwB#^] | |
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| − | + | It's an amazing accomplishment that you have made it to 95 days. I understand the feelings you are having and I really feel for you for what you are going through. It is an extremely frustrating situation. | |
| − | + | My question for you is: are you still fantasizing in your head of images/videos or women on the street that you have seen in the past? If you are, I'd feel quite comfortable saying that's why your taivas are not dying down for you yet. This realization (i.e., that not just watching now, but even fantasizing alone about images from the past is the cause of these urges) was the single biggest game changer for me that has helped me get to where I am now. | |
| − | ''' | + | '''In summary: taivas for p&m and the constant battle will never ever ever ever die down unless a person can stop fantasizing.''' |
| − | + | Wishing you much hatzlacha and looking forward to seeing more of your posts. | |
| − | + | [https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/378280-Re-Heres-where-Im-at @Vehkam] | |
| − | + | Imho Best way to stop fantasizing is to throw yourself into other interests. Learning, music, hobbies, Chesed just try to keep your mind as busy as possible. Plus reading a chapter of a book such as the battle of the generation every single night to keep you motivated. | |
| − | + | Don’t strive for perfection. Strive to be moving in the right direction. | |
| − | + | ----By [https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/2-What-Works-for-Me/80197-getting-the-urge-OUT-of-your-head-the-thread#104007 Dov] | |
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| − | By [https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/2-What-Works-for-Me/80197-getting-the-urge-OUT-of-your-head-the-thread#104007 Dov] | ||
My favorite tool for getting the thoughts out of my head is ignoring them. I have discovered that I really am the ba'al habos of my head...sometimes. | My favorite tool for getting the thoughts out of my head is ignoring them. I have discovered that I really am the ba'al habos of my head...sometimes. | ||
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Thanks for giving me a setting to share that, World! | Thanks for giving me a setting to share that, World! | ||
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| + | == From Howard == | ||
| + | Thoughts on Thinking (to review) | ||
| + | |||
| + | Our thoughts can be just as habitual as our behaviors. We tend not to view them that way, but many thoughts are habitual reactions that have been trained over your lifetime. Just like behaviors can be automatic so can thoughts, so you need to be aware that you don’t have to accept what happens to pop into your mind. | ||
| + | |||
| + | In addition, there’s an important distinction between thoughts and behavior. Thinking about an urge is not the same as indulging in a habitual behavior. Just thinking about an action is not the same as doing it. But you have a choice of following a thought or an urge, or challenging it. | ||
| + | |||
| + | This is very important. Often, when one starts a program like this, an urge can be the signal for stress or even panic and a sign of an upcoming struggle between you and the devil. This idea creates the very stress you are anticipating and makes it a reality. However, if you take the view that this is merely a thinking habit and can be easily resisted, the stress is limited, reduced or even vanquished. | ||
| + | |||
| + | So, expect automatic, habitual thoughts to appear about urges, but then remind yourself these are automatic and habitual and can be managed with practice. | ||
| + | |||
| + | The danger with automatic and habitual thoughts is that you can think about them inappropriately. Some of these inappropriate beliefs are outlined in the section on Beliefs about Urges. But misleading thinking can apply to any related ideas, not just urges. | ||
| + | |||
| + | For example, a sign of wanting to engage in habitual sexual behavior, may generate the idea that “this is impossible” or ‘I can’t do this” or “I will never be able to change”. Those are thoughts not truths and you must not give them the power. The fact is that changing habits is challenging and a journey that takes some time but it is very definitely possible. As mentioned elsewhere in the program, when things don’t go as planned, either not as good or better, they are learning experiences that can inform your self and your program and are the foundations of success. | ||
| + | |||
| + | When you find yourself getting caught up in unproductive and negative thinking you need to have a plan. | ||
| + | |||
| + | How are you going to challenge your unproductive thinking? | ||
| + | |||
| + | One obvious way of handling this situation is reaching out to others for different perspectives. Often, it’is a lot easier for others to see our thinking errors than we can see them ourselves. But sometimes we can just feel stuck. | ||
| + | |||
| + | So, if you get stuck what are you going to do and who are you going to turn to, for help? | ||
| + | |||
| + | == Notes == | ||
| + | As to why Hashem gave such a mitzvah, we may theorize: 1) He wants man to strive to master his thoughts (i.e., to be a master human being). [Side note -- a person who can do this will never succumb to anxiety, depression, etc.] 2) He wants man to be humble. —Nahum Spirn | ||
Latest revision as of 20:20, 8 March 2022
Dealing with improper thoughts:
- See Hesech Hadaas
- See Attitude Principles for Lust Struggles > Dealing with thoughts and fantasies.
- Tanya
Dealing with thoughts about doing something:
Dealing with improper thoughts
Torah Sources
- אגרות ומכתבים מר’ ישראל סלנטר זצ”ל, אגרת כה, שכ’ וז”ל-- דבר הקרי מקרה לילה הוא המסובב ויסוד העבירה הוא ההרהור ביום, ואם ההרהור בא מאונס, יש להקל לבלי חושבה לעון ואין להעמיק, ולא בהשתדלות מרובה לדחות ההרהורים כי זאת טיבעת נפש האדם, כל שמעמיק לדחות איזה רעיון, איזה צער וכיוצא, עוד תתגבר ההתנגדות בנפש האדם להלהיב המוזר לאדם, לזאת מריבוי ההשתדלות לדחות ההרהורים יכול להיות שתולד לפעמים סיבה גדולה לחזק ההרהורים. כן זה גם בתפילה, העמל הרב לדחות מחשבות זרות מולידים לפעמים סיבה למחשבות זרות, מסיבת טיבעת נפש האדם להתנגדות, והנסיון ברעיון גופני יוכיח הדבר למדי.
- וחידושי הלב ח"ג במדבר הביא דבריו וסייים: הרי מבואר שהדרך להנצל מהרהורים אסורים היא לא ע"י הדגשת חומר האיסור ודחיית ההרהורים מהלב, אלא ע"י הסחת הדעת לדברים אחרים.
- Reference: ישראל קדושים הרפענעס p. 50 (nothing wrong with first thought)
- Reference: יסודות הבית וקדושתו בעילום שם p. 38 (nothing wrong with first thought - in name of Rabbi Chaim of Volozhin)
Further reading
- Positive Vision Day 35 - Worse Than Titus (quotes the Nefesh Hachaim about הרי הוא מכניס זונה כו')
- Battle of the Generation Ch. 43
From GYE Members
It's an amazing accomplishment that you have made it to 95 days. I understand the feelings you are having and I really feel for you for what you are going through. It is an extremely frustrating situation.
My question for you is: are you still fantasizing in your head of images/videos or women on the street that you have seen in the past? If you are, I'd feel quite comfortable saying that's why your taivas are not dying down for you yet. This realization (i.e., that not just watching now, but even fantasizing alone about images from the past is the cause of these urges) was the single biggest game changer for me that has helped me get to where I am now.
In summary: taivas for p&m and the constant battle will never ever ever ever die down unless a person can stop fantasizing.
Wishing you much hatzlacha and looking forward to seeing more of your posts.
Imho Best way to stop fantasizing is to throw yourself into other interests. Learning, music, hobbies, Chesed just try to keep your mind as busy as possible. Plus reading a chapter of a book such as the battle of the generation every single night to keep you motivated.
Don’t strive for perfection. Strive to be moving in the right direction.
By Dov
My favorite tool for getting the thoughts out of my head is ignoring them. I have discovered that I really am the ba'al habos of my head...sometimes.
If that' does not work, I make sure to try and do the diametric opposite of whatever my lust is: Meaning, instead of worshipping or sexually devouring the person or image or whatever, I pause and pray (with actual spoken words, in private) for the person or instituion involved me'umka deliba as best I am able right then. Not for them to 'finally see the light and stop being so provocative or promiscuous` - that judgementalism poisons me no matter how much my morality agrees with it. It is more than useless. Rather, I daven that Hashem should give them health and comfort in this life and whatever is afterward, and that He grant them a progressive awareness of Him and of all the good in their lives, and that He give them clarity in how all the good in their lives comes from Him, and that he even grants them acceptance that all the hard times they may have in their long futures is a gift from Him somehow, and that they also have peace of mind to really do right by themselves and by G-d. Then I may ask for all the same for me: Health, Comfort, Progressive awareness of Him in my life, and Peace of mind.
If that does not work - and sometimes even if it does - the best tool of all for me is to openly share all the dirty and stupid thoughts I tend to have with another safe person. I am careful to say it in a non-exciting way (no need to show off and splash dirt all over him, is there?) but still directly and truthfully - with Hashem's help.
As long as I am ashamed of what gets into my mind and as long as I say to myself stuff like, "How could I ever have thought such a horrible thing!?" - I will keep thinking stuff like that.
If I really know that I am a sick person getting well, then I will accept goofy thoughts as just that: goofy. I will take them as seriously as I need to take goofy, stupid thoughts....not very. And I will move past them with Hashem's help. On the other hand, if I am too ashamed to admit them, then I am too ashamed to believe that I am sick. It means I really believe that I am evil, ie. bad. Good luck getting 'good'! : Deep down inside, these folks are too ashamed to admit their evil thoughts even to Hashem! I believe that's why they can never 'get good'. Hmmm...
A sick person may have shame about his rear-end discomfort when sitting, but eventually he will get truly comfortable discussing all the details of his embarrassing hemmorroids with whoever he really has to discuss them with. Totally comfortable, eventually. Because he admits that he has a problem - that he is sick, not disgusting. I have seen this many times. (I actually do have a friend with hemmoroids who had such a hard time getting the words out of his mouth to describe his exact problem! And we are very close! Nu. Once he got it out, he freely discusses it with me and I have helped him discuss it openly with two doctors already. Boruch Hashem!
Same for most sex and lust addicts - and even for guys who just have porn habits but are not really addicts: They cannot seem to get the words "I masturbate" out of their mouths! Once they get the truth out, just see what people have posted on GYE about the relief of discovering they are not alone! I masturbate in my addiction too! And it's horrible for me when I do that - but especially when I do all the tinkgs that led me up to the masturbation.
See, for normal yidden, talking it out makes it worse, by far. There is a reason that "it's a shanda! Nu! Shaa!" is part of our culture. There is certainly a place for that mentality and approach to lust.
But for people who are already doing it over and over for a while and with a trance, planning and proccupation and a repeated pattern; who feel withdrawal when they quit and other cyclical mishega'as...well, they have a problem and may be addicts. And they need help. You cannot get help without talking explicitly about it, can you?
But I, and addict, am free of it this day, and am happy to share with anybody who wants to get better how that happened.)
Exact same thing here. I am a recovering pervert. Iv'e got a tendency to have strange and goofy sex (and other) thoughts, let's face it. It doesn't mean I need to act them out. And I need help.
This last tool is precious gold to me and has saved my life, sanity and yiddishkeit a thousand times over!
Thanks for giving me a setting to share that, World!
From Howard
Thoughts on Thinking (to review)
Our thoughts can be just as habitual as our behaviors. We tend not to view them that way, but many thoughts are habitual reactions that have been trained over your lifetime. Just like behaviors can be automatic so can thoughts, so you need to be aware that you don’t have to accept what happens to pop into your mind.
In addition, there’s an important distinction between thoughts and behavior. Thinking about an urge is not the same as indulging in a habitual behavior. Just thinking about an action is not the same as doing it. But you have a choice of following a thought or an urge, or challenging it.
This is very important. Often, when one starts a program like this, an urge can be the signal for stress or even panic and a sign of an upcoming struggle between you and the devil. This idea creates the very stress you are anticipating and makes it a reality. However, if you take the view that this is merely a thinking habit and can be easily resisted, the stress is limited, reduced or even vanquished.
So, expect automatic, habitual thoughts to appear about urges, but then remind yourself these are automatic and habitual and can be managed with practice.
The danger with automatic and habitual thoughts is that you can think about them inappropriately. Some of these inappropriate beliefs are outlined in the section on Beliefs about Urges. But misleading thinking can apply to any related ideas, not just urges.
For example, a sign of wanting to engage in habitual sexual behavior, may generate the idea that “this is impossible” or ‘I can’t do this” or “I will never be able to change”. Those are thoughts not truths and you must not give them the power. The fact is that changing habits is challenging and a journey that takes some time but it is very definitely possible. As mentioned elsewhere in the program, when things don’t go as planned, either not as good or better, they are learning experiences that can inform your self and your program and are the foundations of success.
When you find yourself getting caught up in unproductive and negative thinking you need to have a plan.
How are you going to challenge your unproductive thinking?
One obvious way of handling this situation is reaching out to others for different perspectives. Often, it’is a lot easier for others to see our thinking errors than we can see them ourselves. But sometimes we can just feel stuck.
So, if you get stuck what are you going to do and who are you going to turn to, for help?
Notes
As to why Hashem gave such a mitzvah, we may theorize: 1) He wants man to strive to master his thoughts (i.e., to be a master human being). [Side note -- a person who can do this will never succumb to anxiety, depression, etc.] 2) He wants man to be humble. —Nahum Spirn